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Thread: EMDM and THEOL are outstanding albums!

  1. #21
    Sex Murder Nemoris Inferioris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zimscum View Post
    Theol and BV were flea markets versions of previous albums. You're reaching pretty far using some pretty desparete and shady reasons to defend these shit piles.
    I do so because I don't believe they are piles of shit. I don't think any Manson album is bad, as far as bad goes. I think Half of BV was great (No Reflection, Slo-Mo-Tion, Murders..., Lay down your Arms, Gardener, Overneath, and even Cruel World), rest were meh. THEOL has some great songs on it. It's weakest tracks (Leave a Scar [Album version], WOW) are still pretty good. Yes, I'll admit, I kinda dig WOW. It's fun, groovy, and so sarcastic. On paper, the albums look great. By that, I mean a lot of their Promo photography.

    EMDM, I agree with everyone on how greatly underrated and underappreciated it is, and is my 3rd fav album.
    Memento Mori
    You Pays Your Money, You Takes Your Choice.
    619208 919 4514
    Men Without Shoulders
    Apple's Fall Far From The Tree.
    The Shadow of a Cross, burning into the ground.
    Days are getting
    Darker.

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  3. #22
    pabloccb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cataract777 View Post
    I think it might be because both of the records were made when he was in a very dark time in his life, and he may not want to revisit that. I want to say he even said that in an interview somewhere. Can't recall where though.
    This, plus both albums were underwhelming in terms of sales and critics.

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  5. #23
    Man Who Fell From Earth A Gruesome Discovery's Avatar
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    Meh, they're just not particularly accessible because they sound bad and are exhausting to listen to for more than a few minutes at a time.
    This space intentionally left blank.

  6. #24
    HEAVEN UPSIDE DOWN Hazekiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkahno View Post
    EMDM was just fenomenal at the time, really unexpected and honest, and skold did a outstanding job with the music, the bad thing is that Manson himself seems to pretend that he doesn't like the album anymore. Heart Shaped Glasses is an amazing song btw.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dipp Six View Post
    It'd be nice if Manson would stop pretending EMDM didn't exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by cataract777 View Post
    I don't think the reason why he doesn't play anything from Eat Me, Drink Me or The High End of Low is because him and Skold are no longer friends. I think it might be because both of the records were made when he was in a very dark time in his life, and he may not want to revisit that. I want to say he even said that in an interview somewhere. Can't recall where though.
    He said it in many interviews surrounding the release of Born Villain and his point was more along the lines of those albums very accurately conveying his bad feelings at the time they were recorded and that making his audience experience those same bad feelings was perhaps not the best approach in either case.

    Manson doesn't "pretend that he doesn't like" Eat Me, Drink Me or that it "didn't exist." He still plays those albums on his tour bus and even performed "If I Was Your Vampire" as late as 2009. Hell, he's also been more than happy to accept heart-shaped glasses from fans at shows to perform in them for a bit...sometimes without even breaking them when he's done, lol.

    I think the best way to explain why he hasn't played songs from that album recently might be by way of Kevin Smith's memorial for Prince from last year:

    SKIP TO 27:21
    Last edited by Hazekiah; 01-31-2017 at 04:27 PM.

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  8. #25

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    Both EMDM and THEOL are indeed quite phenomenal. I'm happy that in recent years, those records (particularly the former) have been given more praise. I remember during the buildup to and after the release of THEOL, a large section of the fan community practically disowning EMDM. I understand why and I went into that somewhere else awhile ago, but I never found it to be fair. EMDM is great, and it's different, particularly when it comes to the musicianship. All arguments of Manson just being a 'power chord band' were smooshed after that release.

    I also adore THEOL. While I could swear I listened to other records more often, itunes apparently claims that I listen to THEOL 3rd or 4th most out of the catalogue.

    I largely disagree with most of the criticisms of that era, tour, etc. THEOL is what I like to call 'an album only understood in context,' and every great or complex artist definitely has one or two of those. It's a wayward jumbled mess of chaos, pain, and not giving much of a fuck, yes, but understanding and knowing the dynamics of what Manson was thinking and feeling at the time add to the music's quality when you listen to it on your own, it just does. It's supposed to be chaotic, and his rock-bottom heart along with his cynicism and disillusionment really bleeds into those songs. I love the interviews from that era, where he shows up 30 mins late and drunk in a hoodie to just piss on everything and make it all a big wonderful joke. It's awful of me to say, but his intense turmoil, self-destruction, and dissociation made for a great era, though I don't think he'd want it any other way. It was probably the 'purest' of all of Manson's eras. It wasn't curated, or choreographed, it was the concept of 'Marilyn Manson' as he first envisioned, taken to a very real and very 'meta' state.

    To mention briefly, I also like the album in the sense that for me it sort of hearkens back to the days when bands and artists would release an album, maybe two, every year. 'Here's where we are right now, here's some songs we wrote. Take 'em, there you go.' THEOL as an era wasn't grand and marvelous and complex, the album was a collection of tunes Manson gone and did, and he put them out, whereas he absolutely could've taken an extended release-hiatus to deal with his own demons. He chose not to, and instead to put what he was feeling and where he was on a record, take it or leave it. I like that.

    In a weird and twisted way, I really enjoyed the tour. Before THEOL, I'd attended more Manson shows than I could count, but these shows were different. For a long while concerts have been and are choreographed theatre, every kick and scream and 'moment' is the exact same, you can surf youtube to see the show that occured the night before the one you plan to attend and know exactly, to the most minute aspect, what to expect. You had no fuckin' idea what to expect when you went to a Manson show in 2009/2010. With THEOL being the most recent album to be released at the time, it all felt very 'Antichrist Superstar', Manson the man and the concept was destroying him/itself on stage, intentionally, and painfully, and not giving two shits. It was never a 'good concert,' he sounded like ass more often than not, but god damn was it a fucking 'show' to behold, and something you genuinely do not see, ever, with bands these days. Would he ramble into a mic for twelve minutes during the bridge of Rock n' Roll Nigger? Would he spend all of Like They Do in the Movies just screaming on the floor? Would he stop to ramble idiot savant pseudo-poetry? Would he drink beer while making Twiggy sing random shit? How often would Ginger look depressed? I've been going to Manson shows since '99, but the shows during the THEOL era were some of the greatest times I've had. It may seem inconsiderate to think 'yeah wooo rock and roll' when it comes to a human being clearly in serious mental and emotional pain, but again, I do think this was his objective at the time. His feelings and intentional self-destruction were mined for a wonderful non-performance-art-project of an era. THEOL was the shit.

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  10. #26
    HEAVEN UPSIDE DOWN Hazekiah's Avatar
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    I'd agree with almost all of that.

    And Manson ALWAYS loses old fans as fast as he picks up new ones...it's kind of the nature of the beast considering how drastically he shifts gears into new directions. There will always be fans that are just there because he met them halfway and crossed paths with some genre they happen to enjoy enough to appreciate him for that specific album just as there will always be the bitchy retarded girls who disavow any interest in Manson because of whoever his latest gf/fiancée/wife might be, etc.

    Speaking of which...

    Most people who devaluate the live shows for The High End of Low just aren't really seeing the big picture and/or understanding it.

    We're talking about a performer touring in support of a breakup album about his actress ex and basically wanting to murder her and/or kill himself yet struggling through it all by way of performance art.

    I mean, he was LITERALLY performing under an assumed name, with onstage wardrobe changes, medicating assistants, klieg lights, cue cards, and even a fucking GREEN SCREEN behind him for "The Dope Show," lol. Not to mention the fact that he used a photograph of his disheveled bedroom as a backdrop and literally staged a murder scene therein one night and the everpresent C.S.I. blacklights at every show.

    The fact that all that continues to fly RIGHT over the heads of the audience really speaks to exactly how much they were paying attention, ffs.

    But anyway!

    Hit or miss though the shows may have occasionally seemed, when Manson nailed it he fucking NAILED IT.






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  12. #27

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    Won't call these two records outstanding, but well they're just fine. What's actually lacking on both albums is the visual aspect, all the artworks and photoshoots were pretty average, proving how the guy was (and still is) unfocused.
    Last edited by Posthuman; 06-29-2017 at 06:38 PM.

  13. #28
    Lord MeowMeow's Avatar
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    It's really easy to put into words just how awful those two albums are, and the blame doesn't lie with Skold or Twiggy. They were all over the place musically, conceptually and just felt completely stale and uninspired.

    If I Was Your Vampire and Four Rusted Horses are great songs, though.

  14. #29
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    Twiggy said in an interview that Manson lost the notebook with all the lyrics for THEOL and had to write new ones.
    "We were too dumb to run, too dead to die."

  15. #30
    XIII arkahno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    Hit or miss though the shows may have occasionally seemed, when Manson nailed it he fucking NAILED IT.
    the last part of the tour when manson and co. performed wight spider and dried up tied and dead to the world were also really amazing things to see.

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