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Thread: EMDM and THEOL are outstanding albums!

  1. #51
    Freeston3r's Avatar
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    EMDM is one of my top 3 favourite Manson albums.

    THEOL is also high in the list but I really dislike Blank and White. Not his best song I think we can agree.

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freeston3r View Post
    EMDM is one of my top 3 favourite Manson albums.

    THEOL is also high in the list but I really dislike Blank and White. Not his best song I think we can agree.

    That is like waving the proverbial rag at a bull, lol. No, I really cannot agree.

    I love Blank and White for many reasons, not least because right now it is so damned accurate for so many situations. It is the song that just keeps on giving.
    Quid ignorantia sit multi ignorant.

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  5. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enname View Post
    That is like waving the proverbial rag at a bull, lol. No, I really cannot agree.

    I love Blank and White for many reasons, not least because right now it is so damned accurate for so many situations. It is the song that just keeps on giving.
    If you think Blank and White is his best song then that's great 👍🏻

  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freeston3r View Post
    If you think Blank and White is his best song then that's great ����
    'Best' might be going a bit far. But nor is it completely pedestrian.

    :)
    Quid ignorantia sit multi ignorant.

  7. #55
    Ruination cataract777's Avatar
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    Blank and White is definitely one of the stronger tracks on that record, no doubting that.

    I used to love WOW but find it unlistenable, except for the chorus, which I still enjoy.

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  9. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justsomeguy View Post
    On one hand, he wanted to express an outright sense of beer-swilling gun-shooting midwest gloomy-bluesy balls-out masculinity, and on the other he wanted to craft a grand and epic theatrical cinematic record. He tried for years to accomplish both with very little fruit, not quite able to do both equally (THEOL), not quite able to do just one well (BV). It wasn't until Bates came along, an actual scorer of moving pictures, that he finally felt satisfied in getting it right.
    As someone in the High End Of Low hater camp, you've just put your finger on something central to my dislike of the record: it has no fundamental identity of its own, unlike any of the albums before it. You can listen to "Wrapped In Plastic" or "The Reflecting God" or "The Last Day On Earth" and immediately know everything about the record it's from and the atmosphere it's trying to conjure up in your mind. Manson was extremely good at producing internally coherent albums at one point, very rarely making anything in his discography sound quite like anything else. Maybe "Wormboy" more properly belongs on Portrait, and maybe "Born Again" is a throwback to "I Want To Disappear", and perhaps "Just A Car Crash Away" was evocative of "Fundamentally Loathsome", but on the whole each album has its own distinguishing identity.

    Not so THEOL, and not really for any of the albums to follow. So much of the record riffs on things he'd done before, which makes sense because so much of it was actually reworked from material he'd written for prior albums ("... Geddon" being the primary example here, which originated in the early sessions for the post-Holy Wood record). It has no centrifugal force; it's neither Marilyn nor Manson but a blend of both, and, I think, the weaker for it. Individual songs on that record are extremely satisfying - "I Have To Look Up Just To See Hell", say, or "Wight Spider" - but the whole is somehow less than the sum of its parts. This could be forgiven if the writing elsewhere on the album weren't the absolute nadir of his discography - "Running To The Edge Of The World", "Unkillable Monster", the lyrics of "Into The Fire". My ability to put myself into that kind of ultra-depressive headspace only gets the album so far.

    Each album to follow has suffered a bit from this identity crisis, but none so badly as The High End Of Low. "Murderers..." for example is a fine tune, but it contrasts jarringly with the basically post-punk derived tracks preceding it. If, as you say, The High End Of Low suffered from being a hybrid of a bluesy, swaggering rock album and a cinematic soundtrack, the problem with Born Villain is that it doesn't know whether it wants to be the Sisters of Mercy or Slayer. For my tastes I should have much preferred the former, and still hope Manson dabbles in more overtly gothic forms somewhere in what's left of his career. (I'm still an advocate for a completely electronic darkwave/trip-hop/EDM record from Manson.)

    The Pale Emperor isn't quite completely free of this identity confusion, either, but that's more to do with the fact that The High End Of Low exists in the form that it does. It's disappointing to me that Manson still felt the need to revisit the bluesy style he attempted in portions of THEOL, simply because it detracts from his chameleonic character. I know that the failure must have itched something fierce, but I just wish he'd been able to hold off from scratching it. That's not to say I dislike TPE - it's an excellent album. But it isn't what I wanted; I'm demanding, and I'm still standing.

    My guess - I'm always given to these kinds of futile speculations - is that the 'cinematic', soundtrack-style record was originally going to be what we got after The Golden Age of Grotesque/Lest We Forget. So much of what we saw from that "aborted Celebritarian period" lends itself so well to that kind of tone, from the Andy Warhol-inspired pop-art visuals to the Marilyn Manson website itself. It only makes sense to have cinematic music to accompany a Celebritarian-themed record.
    Last edited by The Overman; 02-18-2017 at 01:24 PM.

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  11. #57
    Strange & Unusual Sinner Halo Infinity's Avatar
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    I'll admit that it took me a while to see the light. (Not to say that I thought both albums were actually bad or anything like that, but some parts on both albums took much longer than others to click with me.) Both albums were definitely growers for me. I still tend to lean more towards The High End of Low, but as of late, I ended up enjoying songs from Eat Me, Drink Me that I used to skip, such as They Said Hell's Not Hot, Just a Car Crash Away and Are You The Rabbit. I might have to give Eat Me, Drink (The title track.) more time to grow on me, but I certainly also appreciate it more now.

    This ultimately proves to me that it's always important to give albums time and space to grow on you. (Although, there is also a fine line between that and forcing yourself to like something that's not for you, but I don't really mean that in this particular case.)

  12. #58
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    Eat Me, Drink Me is phenomenal and if you know me, I consider it his last true album with an Era and thematic elements. Everything since hasn't nearly matched the enthusiasm, care or outright pride he had about it at release. Wonderful promotion, stoking the fires of hype properly and exceptional support.
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  14. #59
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    See, I know there's a degree of it all that was a little... hazy, shall we say, but I feel that way about The High Of Low. I think that was the last album that he pushed the boundary of 'behaving' like Marilyn Manson, and perhaps - being nearly a decade ago - the last instance of a pop star managing to make themselves a knowing spectacle, and it legitimately seem chaotic.

    Today, so many stars are already disposable and useless by nature that it's hard for people to give a shit either way. Manson can at least count himself the last of a breed of performers who people are invested in the personal life and welfare of.
    "the Serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which
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    m e m e n t o m o r i . p o s t m o r t e m


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  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.D. View Post
    See, I know there's a degree of it all that was a little... hazy, shall we say, but I feel that way about The High Of Low. I think that was the last album that he pushed the boundary of 'behaving' like Marilyn Manson, and perhaps - being nearly a decade ago - the last instance of a pop star managing to make themselves a knowing spectacle, and it legitimately seem chaotic.

    Today, so many stars are already disposable and useless by nature that it's hard for people to give a shit either way. Manson can at least count himself the last of a breed of performers who people are invested in the personal life and welfare of.
    Minus the thinly veiled "woe is me" theme running throughout the THEOL's tracks, it lacked a sense of identity. The style of the album's music is all over the place and in some instances felt very "Color by Numbers" Manson. THEOL is my least favorite album of the entire catalog. I was enthusiastic at the start in 2009 but as time progressed I realized it was mostly hype for show and substance. Born Villain and the Pale Emperor blow it away.
    I use words sharp as a sword

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