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Thread: Do you enjoy Born Villain more than The Pale Emperor?

  1. #41
    Strange & Unusual Sinner Halo Infinity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    Albeit inadvertently, you make a decent point.

    Manson fans hated Antichrist Superstar because it wasn't Portrait of an American Family. Then they hated Mechanical Animals because it was too faggy, pop, and a sell-out. Then they hated Holy Wood because it was too dark again. Then they hated The Golden Age of Grotesque because it was too fun/heavy/pop/whatever, take your goddamned pick.


    The point is, Manson albums are always emo with solos just as much as any given album was also cartoonish, steeped in Americana, and faggy, dark, heavy, pop, a sell-out, etc. Just like all the others.

    Once people outgrow their their personal issues and start to simply appreciate Manson for being Manson, all of that quickly becomes self-evident. If you actually like Manson for who he is then you'll see its all there in every album and discover that you're really just tripping over your own bias if you're keeping yourself from seeing that.

    You're either a fan of Manson who enjoys his artistry and self-expression no matter its avenue or else your just some kind of genre enthusiast who Manson happened to meet halfway at some point somewhere along the path of his career.

    It really explains a lot if you think of it like that.
    I was about to respond to this, but realized that there was nothing more that needed to be added. (Granted, not every single release will be liked/loved, nor would every release be taken equally at all times, for better of for worse.) However...

    Yeah man. Like, The Pale Emperor? More like The Stale Emperor. It needed much more Born Villain dude.

    And what's the deal with Antichrist Superstar? If Marilyn Manson kept sticking to making Portrait of an American Family over and over again, then they would've been far more successful, famous, popular and controversial. What a major missed opportunity. Talk about fucked up.

    And well, I suppose it also just proves that they just ultimately love all the things they can not sedate? You know, since we hate love and we love hate, right? =P

    But in all seriousness now, I just loved the way you nailed it right there. ^_^
    Last edited by Halo Infinity; 09-08-2017 at 06:59 PM.

  2. #42
    Level 99 space wizard Marsmind's Avatar
    Join Date: 05.26.12
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    I love how BV was written in an apartment above a liquor store by Manson by himself with most of his stuff in storage. His label flaked out on him, His drummer flaked out on him, his girl flaked out on him and he's like eh whatever I'll do this myself. He probably wrote some of these lyrics not even knowing yet where his life was going to go at that time. It's got some really great songs. The videos for Slo mo tion and No Reflection are phenomenal, I really hope he works with Alan Lasky again.

    I can't say I like one better than the other. When I can get a meaning out of a song it's so much better. You have to be able to get more out of music than if it's good to bang your head to in order to really appreciate music. The Path of Misery holds a lot of mystery. I think BV was more personal than people realize.

    TPE is seriously great musically. Tyler Bates is a beast in that department, he really knows what he's doing. The lyrics and Manson's voice is so powerful. Slave Only Dreams To Be King. I wish that could have been played on tour, that song is so Manson. The Do not fuck with me tone the whole album has is I think what older Manson fans really love about it.

  3. #43
    SEGLASS NI TONDAY Hazekiah's Avatar
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  4. #44
    The Overman's Avatar
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    I actually like the song writing on Born Villain more, in general, than I do on The Pale Emperor.

    That's not to say that BV isn't a significantly more flawed record; the production values are incomparable, and the artwork doesn't even come close. But TPE is a deeply conservative record in its construction - it's probably the most straightforward AOR album Manson's ever released. Born Villain, on the other hand, has tracks like "The Gardener" and "The Flowers Of Evil" which rank among the most sonically adventurous of the catalogue, and which, though they'd have been better served by a professional production job, are nevertheless solid conceptually, even if the album itself doesn't do them justice.

    If I just want to play one Manson track in the middle of a playlist, it's more likely to be "The Mephistopheles Of Los Angeles" or "Killing Strangers" than anything off of Born Villain. But from front to back, I'm much more likely to play BV than TPE. I just think it's a more interesting record.
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  5. #45
    Absolution's Avatar
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  6. #46
    The Pale Scion Korpz's Avatar
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    I enjoy BV - TPE I love almost as much as ACSS.
    Not a single album I do not relate to in some way and I certainly enjoy the audio abuse.
    "And We Will Sleep on the Skin of Its Nightmares..."

  7. #47

    Join Date: 04.09.12
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    I thought Manson's performance on Born Villain was poor and ruined an otherwise decent throwback to goth rock and post-punk. The title track was excellent, the rest was kinda meh.

    The Pale Emperor was a lot better. More highs, less lows.

  8. #48
    MA-86's Avatar
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    Nope. There are a few songs that are listenable, but on a whole I find that it is the most incoherent album in MM´s repertoire, which needed that final (quite a) bit of polish before it was released.

    TPE is on a different level production and quality wise.

  9. #49
    pabloccb's Avatar
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    No, Born Villain is in the bottom of Manson's discography, The Pale Emperor is a top 5.

  10. #50
    The Pale Scion Korpz's Avatar
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    I dunno...
    "No Sineater to slay us Children of Cain"
    That bit (and so many others) is pure poetry and carries such powerful imagery. That whole song is superb imo.
    BV needs a certain attitude to fully enjoy but I find most of Manson's work to be like that. I have to spin what my mood is demanding and I get so much more back in return from the apt (Manson) choice.
    "And We Will Sleep on the Skin of Its Nightmares..."

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