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Thread: Do you enjoy Born Villain more than The Pale Emperor?

  1. #21

    Join Date: 06.23.09
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMC View Post
    I prefer The Pale Emperor over Born Villain, however the latter grew on me lately.
    For me the biggest weakness of The Pale Emperor is in it's second half, namely Slave Only Dreams to Be King, The Devil Beneath My Feet and Birds of Hell Awaiting which destroy the otherwise very good dynamics of the whole album. If those three were removed, I would consider TPE a perfect record.
    When it comes to Born Villain, just like on THEOL, I like many songs on it separately, however it doesn't work as an album. Then there are several songs that are partially good, but are either too long and monotonous or too simple.
    Remove the song: ''Devil Beneath My Feet'' ? You did not just say that. I'm going to pretend i didn't just read that.

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  3. #22

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    Born Villain is way better in my opinion, at least musically... i mean, nobody mentions songs like Hey Cruel World and especially Murderers Are Getting Prettier Every Day which are classic Manson songs and there are plenty of good songs in that album...i prefer the heavier side of Manson, his roots, and it seems that the new album will have good heavy songs and i think it will be the best since Hollywood or even better! Although i like to be surprised by Manson but at this point i wouldnt mind to have a whole album with songs like the ones i mentioned before or heavier and faster, not Antichrist Superstar 2 but even heavier, thats the album i have always wanted but i know its not gonna happen...but knowing that this one is gonna be heavier im really looking forward to it! Dont get me wrong, i like all the albums, the Pale Emperor was cool but now its time for something heavy!!

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  5. #23
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    It's always nice to see fondness for The High End Of Low, although I purposely didn't want to mention it because I frequently compliment it.

    Born Villain is a strange album, though. I feel it matches ...Low in mood, aggression, and Marilyn Manson making more direct, deliberately chaotic songs. ...Emperor doesn't do this for me. I'm not as sold on the arch, grandiose mood it generates because I feel this was achieved much more directly on songs such as Wight Spider and I Have To Look Up Just To See Hell, although in trying not to reference ...Low, I still feel that Born Villain achieved a much more cohesive atmosphere than its successor.
    Some factions of the fanbase were braying for high concept, precise photography, a beautiful lyric book and artful production for several years after Holy Wood, and although ...Emperor ticks a lot of those boxes, I still don't consider it to have an impact in the same way ...Villain does.

    The Pale Emperor looks like it should be an undisputed Manson classic, but what ...Villain occasionally lacks in production, it makes up for in consistency. ...Emperor seems like a collection of very good songs - all potential singles - but with no real relation to one another besides the tenuous idea of 'Paying The Devil His Due'. It doesn't scream through in the songs, though. At least (besides his abortive comments about it being a concept album) Born Villain never set out to achieve anything, but like its predecessor, is excellent at being... Born Villain, for no reason.
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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.D. View Post
    The Pale Emperor looks like it should be an undisputed Manson classic, but what ...Villain occasionally lacks in production, it makes up for in consistency. ...Emperor seems like a collection of very good songs - all potential singles - but with no real relation to one another besides the tenuous idea of 'Paying The Devil His Due'. It doesn't scream through in the songs, though. At least (besides his abortive comments about it being a concept album) Born Villain never set out to achieve anything, but like its predecessor, is excellent at being... Born Villain, for no reason.
    So well put! Exactly the point I was trying to articulate as well.

    I like The Pale Emperor but I love Born Villain. But that's old news to the ones who know me - I've defended Born Villain as often as I could on this forum.

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  9. #25
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    No. I actually wanted to see if that would ever happen and it never did. Strictly as a whole, as I'm sure this question was implying, I've always liked The Pale Emperor a lot more. Born Villain is not even close.

    With that being said, I still have a couple of favorite songs from Born Villain, but it also still remains to be the least listened to Marilyn Manson album in my collection. (Which I'm also sure is why it was such an easy no from me.) I even skipped around that album much more than I ever did on Eat Me, Drink Me and The High End of Low.

  10. #26
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    What TPE has in terms of production and mix, Born Villain has in song writing/lyrics for me. I really love what they did with the style of The Pale Emperor, and there are some amazing tracks (one which has become a top 10 easy for me), but there's something of the diversity of BV that makes the album more impactful for me. I'll still be in the mood for one vs the other at times, but TPE didn't really reach that level of aggression that tends to pull me in. That's just me. On the other hand, the new tracks for Heaven Upside Down gave me a little more BV and GAOG vibe in production and that has me really excited to see how the same writing team can take a sound so contrasting to the strip down, bluesy vibe of the last album. I think I'll always prefer that groove a real drummer gives in the studio vs strictly programmed drums. Blend of both perfection.

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  12. #27
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    This is such a hard question because even a flawed Manson album is loads better than most things on the market. As I've evolved as a person and as a Manson fan, I have had my favorites change throughout my journey of life. So far they tend to change every now and then but not too drastically. Currently, for a while now I believe 'The Pale Emperor' is waaaay better mechanically and sonically than 'Born Villain'. Although even as flawed as 'Born Villain' can be I still love a lot of the songs on that record. No Reflection, Slo-Mo-Tion, LDYGDA, The Gardener, and Overneath are all groovy & catchy songs, it's just the production is lacking. 'Born Villain' is a chaotic mess and has a hurricaney level of craziness. I feel that the construction of the album didn't go the way he wanted but in a weird way it makes it appealing. It definitely does fit the character of MM as of now so I don't think I'd ever pretend it didn't exist.

    That all being said I love the absolute death out of 'The Pale Emperor', I love the mood it sets, I fucking love Third Day so much and will say that's his best single he's put out in a while. Not trying to bring up Bowie or even make a valid comparison but my Favorite album of Bowies happens to be 'Station to Station' Mansons Thin White Duke homage in the name of the album kind of already means I gotta like this on principle alone. This album was Mansons 'Station to Station' to me at least. Unlike 'Station to Station' though I do feel that 'Pale Emperor' could have cut some of the fat off the album but like I said I love this album a ton as is. Both of these albums were very minimalistic and came at the time when the respective artist already had a mountain of material under their belts but these two albums stick out like a mime showing up in your bedroom. These two records jumped out at me metaphorically and Conceptually when I heard them for the first.

    That was my long winded way of saying I like 'The Pale Emperor' more but still enjoy most of Mansons work. I have yet to listen to an album that outright turns me off.
    Last edited by FuckmanQ; 08-27-2017 at 05:48 AM. Reason: Clarified, added a bit more and tried cleaning it up as much as possible. Posted this original from my phone.
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  14. #28
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    I think The Pale Emperor is his best album to date with Mechanical Animals and Holy Wood. Bates did a fantastic work and brought back Manson to another level. Deep Six and Third Day of a Seven Day Binge are in my top 10. And I’m a big fan of the minimalist aesthetic of The Pale Emperor (album artwork, music videos, the Nicholas Alan Cope photoshoot…).

    I enjoyed Born Villain when it first came out but that’s all, I'm only listening to No Reflection.
    And let’s be honest, the Born Villain cover, promo shoots and art direction is terrible (except the Agata Alexander MM double cross logo). It all looked like a huge joke to me.

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  16. #29
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    Tough. I think they both are on equal level form. Both for different reasons.



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  18. #30
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    I did, and since listening to TPE more seriously I appreciate it more at least, the production is miles better but BV has a unique rough-around-the-edges charm to it and was a soundtrack for a personal revolution within my life.
    I like them both, but for what they are and to compare MM albums is boring for me, apart from EMDM which I don't think I'll ever enjoy.

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