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Thread: When did Manson become the "I'm a huge badass" guy? Why?

  1. #31
    GAFSTER FuckmanQ's Avatar
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    This is who I miss.
    A system organized around the weakest qualities of individuals will produce these same qualities in its leaders.

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  3. #32
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    I feel the need to first state that I am, in fact, a Marilyn Manson fan before posting this.

    He's a businessman. He's also "Marilyn motherfucking Manson". He's not the prominent, irenic orator of intellectual finesse in how he declaims his views that a lot are under the impression that he is. He's doesn't want to cuddle with you. He's not a voice of anyone's reason, generation and he's not trying to save your world. He's somewhat of a sophist. He also has a fan base whose, to a great extent, core mentality consists of blind devotion, a failure to question or challenge him, who also believe him to be a luminary who is the only person who understands them or who makes sense to them. However, I do greatly admire his work and everything he's accomplished over his career span at the same time. To be inside someones mind, to have complete control. It's like the thrill of being near the executioner's switch knowing that at any time he could throw it, but knowing he never will, but he could. Never isn't the right word, because he could and he might, and he probably will. Of course I'm not literally speaking of him actually taking someones life, though the idea of him being a self defined natural hazard of a person who is meant to be chaos, who loves the idea of a Patrick Bateman being comparable to who his is, but there is no real him and he simply is not there is what I've admired about him more than anything else. Certainly more disturbing than his "new bad ass, gun loving, home invading stalker persona.".

    He created a persona as well as characters for each album where nothing is irrelevant in what he espouses. Where his truth is. to him, the absolute, objective truth. The irony in him wanting to be challenged yet censuring people who do is also what I love about him. It's something I've also found to be more scary about who he is and not the the "We Know Where You Fucking Live" Manson of today. There's something about him, his "charm"and his mentality that I've always seen as more terrifying than him embracing some inner "macho man". I can understand how newer, younger fans could be annoyed by this, but I'll never understand those of us who have been around since the early days can be so amnesic to how 1.) Mendacious and in a mocking tone he used to come across whenever we knew damn well what was going on outside of the music, the art and performances and 2.) How he observes his audience, society in general as well as himself, twists it and spews out his supply which is in high demand and has been since he's reached the pinnacle of what he wants to be admired for. Again, he hasn't really changed or "become more violent". He just hit the fuck it all button. I'm not saying that he lacks sincerity or true creativity/brilliance at all. I'm only saying that he's never been as anti violence as people believe. On one last note, he lacks the thought to care about politics. (Not that he doesn't react to any given political issue). If God is evil, and Marilyn Manson is "God", then he must be evil as well. lol ;)

    The "gun" has always been there, it's just no longer concealed.
    Last edited by Shangri-LIE; 09-18-2017 at 05:39 AM.
    OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM


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  5. #33
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    ^Precisely

    "He's a real cool guy and he's a hero of mine/ Travis, Rhinehart rolled into one cute son/ Less than zero a grotesque nightmare/ Subtly disturbing like normal behaviour/ My personality is held together with Sellotape/ A loose fit just like a numb junkies' hate/ I pretty my face with all this cream and stuff/ Ugliness inside much harder to cover up/ I lack the thought to care about politics/
    Just do what I like ain't that democratic/ I guess all psychos are made out of money/ I cannot be saved as liberals keep telling me/ I don't wanna be understood I just wanna kill/ Out of blandness I am your everyday thrill/ I touched your lips but now I just paint/ Surface reflection all I desired babe/ I am melancholy, flower cutting through stone/ I'm a crime everybody has at home/ Papers hate me but they need my behaviour/ The dignity amongst Hollywood trivia/ Escape is so cheap of alcohol and whores/ Mine's the sanity of exclusive gun laws."

    Therefore, Marilyn Manson must, he must be God.

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  7. #34
    Married to Suedehead Shangri-LIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    ^Precisely

    "He's a real cool guy and he's a hero of mine/ Travis, Rhinehart rolled into one cute son/ Less than zero a grotesque nightmare/ Subtly disturbing like normal behaviour/ My personality is held together with Sellotape/ A loose fit just like a numb junkies' hate/ I pretty my face with all this cream and stuff/ Ugliness inside much harder to cover up/ I lack the thought to care about politics/
    Just do what I like ain't that democratic/ I guess all psychos are made out of money/ I cannot be saved as liberals keep telling me/ I don't wanna be understood I just wanna kill/ Out of blandness I am your everyday thrill/ I touched your lips but now I just paint/ Surface reflection all I desired babe/ I am melancholy, flower cutting through stone/ I'm a crime everybody has at home/ Papers hate me but they need my behaviour/ The dignity amongst Hollywood trivia/ Escape is so cheap of alcohol and whores/ Mine's the sanity of exclusive gun laws."

    Therefore, Marilyn Manson must, he must be God.
    *Boom lol

    I just had to ...comment here in response to a lot of people. Thank you for understanding as well. I just, uh... The myopic scope of and plodding traipse towards most attempts at making a point in here was bothering me to the point of feeling as though....

    Last edited by Shangri-LIE; 09-18-2017 at 06:06 AM.
    OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM


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  9. #35

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    I mean, did anyone ever find Manson's 'old' gimmick especially intelligent?

    Let's take account. We have, in the earliest period, mock LaVeyan Satanism - a well-spoken mock LaVeyan Satanism, to be sure, but one that crumbles like a house of cards under the slightest intellectual probing. The misappropriation of Nietzsche [not that I think he'd have minded], the faux-individualism - "oh, you're an individual, just like the rest of your fanbase", etc.- none of this is especially novel. Criticizing it isn't novel, either; every other review in a 'knowing' publication during this period played this irony up on the sly. Hell, on this sort of level, Portrait Of An American Family kicks Antichrist Superstar's ass square.

    If you weren't completely fucking retarded, you knew Manson's gimmick in this period was just that, and just as deep as you wanted it to be.

    So, there's that. Mechanical Animals throws in something a little more cerebral [playing more on existentialist themes of authenticity and a cyber-punk dread of technology], and it's pretty high-brow for a pop album. Still, nothing incredibly innovative. It's not unthinkable that these themes might be touched on by a band with an interest in outsider art and edgy pop-philosophy [Marshall McLuhan etc.]. Sartre had a big run in the West in the fifties and sixties that helped to nudge the concept of authenticity into popular consciousness, and it's basically stuck in that form since, with a few antecedents. "I have to be free to be me."

    Holy Wood, however, is actually something that deserves serious consideration, because now he's interrogating his relationship to the society around him as he's reflected through the eyes of others, not his subjective feelings - he becomes dialectical with Holy Wood. While the basic idea of "Celebritarianism" has been suggested before, it's never really gotten any kind of serious scholarly attention. And it's quite out there for a rock band. I don't like Radiohead at all, for instance, but I recognize that the reputation that OK Computer has garnered for being a work of art isn't just hype. Holy Wood is the same way. And what makes it daring is that it's a self-deconstruction. [The actual narrative of Holy Wood - "the revolution became what it revolted against, and the wheel goes 'round" - is banal and as old as time. If Columbine hadn't happened, I think there was a better storyline these themes could have been analyzed through.]

    Antichrist Superstar really isn't interesting, on an intellectual level, at all. Mechanical Animals is at the level we all ought to expect from serious pop music. Holy Wood actually says something worth saying. And it could have been followed up with a multimedia project - a literal deconstruction of the Celebritarian idol, Marilyn Manson.

    Now, some have argued that this is what the post-triptych records, with their emphasis on Manson's personal life, actually are. And that's a very plausible interpretation. But I also think that they haven't really accomplished what they set out to do to date, not even The High End Of Low. Partly I think this is because there needs to be some visual element to the deconstruction - not just an eyebrow regrown here or a lighter layering of make-up there, but some kind of ceremonial destruction of the character, of a kind symbolically with the sort of thing the old Manson used to do.

    But a full commitment to this kind of deconstruction would probably require a financial commitment Manson isn't willing to make.







    There's one observation I can make that might kind of sort of justify one of the more baffling aspects of Manson's late behavior. Two of you guys shot right past it one the first page. Three of you, actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Eel View Post
    Duality has always played the main role in Manson's artistic work and personality, but where is that now? What is so appealing about such outwardly aggressive, threatening songs?
    Quote Originally Posted by cataract777 View Post
    IOne thing that I always found kind of an eye-roller is when he says his new work is "incredibly violent". To me, it just sounds like he's being violent for the sake of being violent. It doesn't seem like there's as much depth to it as there used to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemoris Inferioris View Post
    You already know my opinion. But song that are aggressive? 90 percent of TPE were softer (Third day, Warship My Wreck, Odds Of even, etc), which is a sensitive side of him.
    Nem hit on it here, but I don't think he knows it.

    There is a dualism between the way Manson is acting and especially describing his music and how his music actually sounds. And this works backwards as well as forwards - The Pale Emperor was his "most violent record yet"; Heaven Upside Down "reminds people of their favorite parts of Antichrist Superstar and Mechanical Animals". In reality, TPE is quite soft; and it's virtually impossible to hear anything of Mechanical Animals from what we have so far of HUD, though this does not preclude the description being more accurate with respect to the full record.

    Manson could just be completely out of touch, in a way that's really quite jarring. That's plausible. Or it could be a deliberate effort to make a more subtle point, akin to the kind of self-deconstruction I suggested above.

    If he is doing this - and don't laugh; I'd consider it if I were in his position - I think he's being a bit too subtle about it. Probably because too much of it would hurt sales, though he has enough of a floor that a little of this strange behavior won't effect them much. At the same time, there would be better ways to do it than give descriptions of records almost the opposite of their actual sound, "I'm a bad boy with a heart of gold" style. If it's intentional, there's a way to be smarter about it.
    Last edited by The Overman; 09-18-2017 at 01:33 PM.

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  11. #36

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    double post delete

  12. #37
    Man Who Fell From Earth A Gruesome Discovery's Avatar
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    I like that Marilyn Manson is now shocking and offending his own fans with his latest persona. It's the final frontier!
    This space intentionally left blank.

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  14. #38

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    Manson has always been bad at describing his own music, there's no duality inherent in that. In fact, many bands are from my experience. Remember "suicide death metal?" I knew that it meant absolutely nothing. And he's literally said that every album has been a comeback or return-to-form album since EMDM, even alluded to it somewhat with Holy Wood.

    The new single reminds me of Mechanical Animals with the bass and synthwork especially in the second half. I also get a NIN vibe. The rawer, trashy production, drum sound, and some riffing reminds of me of Antichrist Superstar and earlier Manson. It also doesn't hurt that there's some aggression in there too whilst a previous attempt like Murderers Are Getting Prettier Every Day sounded like a contrived throwaway piece of garbage.

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  16. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Gruesome Discovery View Post
    I like that Marilyn Manson is now shocking and offending his own fans with his latest persona. It's the final frontier!
    Nobody's shocked, just incredibly disappointed. It's like watching American Psycho and admiring Christian Bale's incredible, masterful, methodical performance and then watching a play with an inebriated Nic Cage playing the part.

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  18. #40

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    To my mind, the synth in it is much more reminiscent of the synth from The Golden Age Of Grotesque than that on Mechanical Animals.

    But you're right, by itself it needn't mean anything. And it probably is a result of his earlier excesses biting him in the ass. But there is a logic by which it could be intentional or semi-intentional which isn't completely laughable. And it doesn't require Manson to be some genius of the ages, either - just a little drunk on his own Kool-Aid.

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