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Thread: Do we have a post about Jessicka's rape accusations yet?

  1. #41
    cold blows the wind Golden Eel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SangreV View Post
    Oh, is that what I said? I think it's important to hear both sides, and I didn't know Twiggy admitted to it. Silly me, I thought he was, until now, only accused of rape. But, are rape and consent simply social constructs? All of this doubletalk - no wonder you are imagining things that I have(n't) said. Try some therapy.
    Reaching a conclusion based on context and common sense isn't exactly some newfound liberal brainwashing conspiracy. It's not some fringe whackjob concept to infer a pretty logical idea without the requisite of literally witnessing it with your own eyes in real time.

    Basically no, I don't have a secret video tape of Jeordie admitting to it. So as we all know, without that then there's absolutely nooo way to know if he did it.

    And I'm not imagining anything you've said, I'm inferring your views based on the evidence of the cartoonishly cliche, petulant, alt-right, anti-SJW nonsense blabbering you've been spewing everywhere all over the forum lately.
         

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  3. #42
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    I've seen here and on fb where people have mentioned text messages from Manson sent to Jessicka about the Twiggy claims. I can't find anything about it online anywhere. Does anyone have a link?

  4. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Eel View Post
    Reaching a conclusion based on context and common sense isn't exactly some newfound liberal brainwashing conspiracy. It's not some fringe whackjob concept to infer a pretty logical idea without the requisite of literally witnessing it with your own eyes in real time.

    Basically no, I don't have a secret video tape of Jeordie admitting to it. So as we all know, without that then there's absolutely nooo way to know if he did it.

    And I'm not imagining anything you've said, I'm inferring your views based on the evidence of the cartoonishly cliche, petulant, alt-right, anti-SJW nonsense blabbering you've been spewing everywhere all over the forum lately.
    Inferring based on evidence yet you do not care about evidence otherwise. How about you, at least, listen to both sides first before reaching a conclusion? I mean, didn't you literally suggest that it was a good idea to do so just moments ago regarding rape accusations? Try laying off the drugs.

  5. #44
    Fucked up and down. Mansoniser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oysterboy View Post
    I've seen here and on fb where people have mentioned text messages from Manson sent to Jessicka about the Twiggy claims. I can't find anything about it online anywhere. Does anyone have a link?
    Jessicka shared them in a private Facebook group.

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  7. #45
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    It's really, REALLY god damn important Marilyn Manson fans take this seriously. Don't make us look like some wannabe alpha nu-metal 'fuck jealous sluts amirite guys?' circle jerk.

    The simplest thing to do is recognize that there's often very little reason for women to falsify rape claims - and thus this accusation should be approached sensitivley and seriously. You can hold an 'innocent until proven guilty' mindset and also not slander a probable rape victim you guys.

    The truth is this fandom has a plethora of issues in admitting the failings of many things Marilyn Manson. Whether it be the quality of some artistic releases or the garbage behavior exhibited by band members and MM himself over the years.

    Manson should suspend Twiggy's involvement in the band indefinitely until further information comes to light.

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  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Eel View Post
    Oh yeah, you don't actually care about any of that. You had your mind made up the second this happened not because of some righteous crusade in the name of justice, but because you're a holy warrior whose job it is to fight the growing scourge of feminists and SJWs overtaking the world. For some reason I get the feeling that you don't generally take the "let's hear out both sides" stance in the event of rape accusations - you seem more like the "Females are liars who invent rape stories all the time so our default position should be to approach them with open disbelief and demand overwhelming, unreasonable proof" type.
    I think a mod kinda warned against making these sort of posts earlier?


    Quote Originally Posted by ImNotJesus View Post
    Manson should suspend Twiggy's involvement in the band indefinitely until further information comes to light.
    They're not gonna tour til January so I guess there's time to sort this out.


    My own thoughts: not sure if Jeordie being excommunicated from music or Marilyn Manson based on a claim of a 20 year old rape is sound, and I don't think that's necessarily Jessicka's goal either. I would think very differently if this was an ongoing thing and all the way til now there's been a lot of assaults, but just based on the current information it sounds like Jeordie was a shitty person who's grown and moved on. Keep in mind, Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, etc. had DOZENS of women come out and reveal the awful things that were done to them. With Jeordie it appears to be this one incident. I'd be interested to hear Jeordie's side.

    Not justifying any alleged actions. Things like murder can be justified in terms of things like self defense, but not so much rape. But did the rape actually occur, were they fighting, were they drunk/high, was it just sexual assault, etc. There's just so many questions that it's difficult to draw a hard stance. I'd feel differently if Jessicka herself was calling for this stuff but it seems like she's accepted it and moved on in a sense and is just trying to get it off her chest. Yes, he was wrong. I think the main question is one of consequence. And for me that boils down to whether this was an isolated incident from a troubled man in a bad relationship, or a series of behaviors that has lead to more than one victim.

    Ultimately the decision isn't up to us, it's up to Manson, the management, label, etc. So unless more develops and god forbid there were more victims who come forward, I'll just have to leave it up to the suits.
    Last edited by JoyfulDarter; 10-22-2017 at 05:15 PM.

  10. #47
    You the Chicken Christina's Avatar
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    Suspending Twiggy from the band would be unfair, especially considering this happened 20 years ago. If he gets suspended that's basically saying he's guilty and his side doesn't matter. IMO!

    I know I'm gonna get crucified for saying this but the person I feel for the hardest is Lamey. That woman has got to be having some mixed feelings right now.

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  12. #48
    cold blows the wind Golden Eel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SangreV View Post
    Inferring based on evidence yet you do not care about evidence otherwise. How about you, at least, listen to both sides first before reaching a conclusion? I mean, didn't you literally suggest that it was a good idea to do so just moments ago regarding rape accusations? Try laying off the drugs.
    Uh, I know both sides. I know Jessicka's story and I know Jeordie is a renowned and self-professed creep. The actual people involved with MM and NIN have recounted 'hilarious' stories of harassing groupies and trying to do the most depraved humiliating shit they can. I know Jeordie himself has stated how ashamed and grossed-out he is by his past. And when I say "his past" I mean having his personality entirely overtaken by a character he 'created' whose shtick was being an unleashed unpredictable animal, crazed on substances and fame and adoration from young girls, with no real accountability or control. I literally know people who have been assaulted or groped by him with no warning or hesitation.

    So Jessicka's story alone would be basically enough proof but once you take into account the 25+ years, 3 different arena touring bands, and hundreds of stories, it becomes pretty unreasonable to take the "we need to hear both sides" position. That sometimes isn't a logical position, sometimes one of the sides is hilariously unrealistic and should be discounted as such. Especially when the implication of "hearing both sides" is inherently dismissive to the person saying they were raped. Throw in the cherry on top that she has witnesses for most of this behavior and plenty of people who can confirm that they heard about it when it happened and that she didn't just invent it two years ago for laughs. There's zero evidence pointing towards her making it up for financial gain, so that idea can be thrown out.

    So I'm curious. I want you to list exactly what specific data you would need to say "Okay, she's probably right." It's been decades so there probably won't be a legal battle. I'm going to go out on a limb and say he probably won't be trying a libel lawsuit. So what, less than Jeordie admitting that he did it, would it take for you to change your view that "both sides need to be heard out" before Jeordie is "proven guilty?" If he denies it, are you really going to just be like "Whelp, case closed."

    To boil all that down for you: there is plenty of evidence supporting one scenario being true, and honestly zero evidence pointing towards the opposite. That's why it's perfectly logical to come to a conclusion on your own. So again try learning how to think three inches past the bubble of preselected anti-SJW agenda you approach every topic with.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulDarter View Post
    I think a mod kinda warned against making these sort of posts earlier?
    A mod warned against attacking Jeordie or Jessicka. I'm pretty sure calling out a political caricature using a Provider Module account by way of addressing his opinions is still allowed.

    Although a rule banning 'slander' is the most absurd thing in a thread about a band member likely raping somebody. Whose call exactly is it to determine what qualifies as slander? Am I slandering Jeordie for factually recounting unflattering things he did? What if girls with similar experiences start to find this forum and share their stories? Is Provider Module going to put itself in the position where the admins are being hounded by journalists as to why they're suppressing these things, or who asked them to?

    Now I don't think PM is doing that right now, but these are real sensitive choices they're gonna have to make. It's looking bad enough already that Provider Module, for all intents and purposes the official Marilyn Manson web forum run with Manson/Manson's lawyers collaboration and input, barred this story from being posted two years ago when Jessicka all but screamed it to the world. There's a reason Jeordie is locked-down in silence, Manson has released a vague one sentence PR statement, and PM has left this thread up. I'm no lawyer but I would assume their advice would be to let them take care of what's considered slanderous instead of leaving the decision up to 'mods' and opening up Provider Module itself to a bag of trouble.
         

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  14. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Eel View Post
    Uh, I know both sides. I know Jessicka's story and I know Jeordie is a renowned and self-professed creep. The actual people involved with MM and NIN have recounted 'hilarious' stories of harassing groupies and trying to do the most depraved humiliating shit they can. I know Jeordie himself has stated how ashamed and grossed-out he is by his past. And when I say "his past" I mean having his personality entirely overtaken by a character he 'created' whose shtick was being an unleashed unpredictable animal, crazed on substances and fame and adoration from young girls, with no real accountability or control. I literally know people who have been assaulted or groped by him with no warning or hesitation.

    So Jessicka's story alone would be basically enough proof but once you take into account the 25+ years, 3 different arena touring bands, and hundreds of stories, it becomes pretty unreasonable to take the "we need to hear both sides" position. That sometimes isn't a logical position, sometimes one of the sides is hilariously unrealistic and should be discounted as such. Especially when the implication of "hearing both sides" is inherently dismissive to the person saying they were raped. Throw in the cherry on top that she has witnesses for most of this behavior and plenty of people who can confirm that they heard about it when it happened and that she didn't just invent it two years ago for laughs. There's zero evidence pointing towards her making it up for financial gain, so that idea can be thrown out.

    So I'm curious. I want you to list exactly what specific data you would need to say "Okay, she's probably right." It's been decades so there probably won't be a legal battle. I'm going to go out on a limb and say he probably won't be trying a libel lawsuit. So what, less than Jeordie admitting that he did it, would it take for you to change your view that "both sides need to be heard out" before Jeordie is "proven guilty?" If he denies it, are you really going to just be like "Whelp, case closed."

    To boil all that down for you: there is plenty of evidence supporting one scenario being true, and honestly zero evidence pointing towards the opposite. That's why it's perfectly logical to come to a conclusion on your own. So again try learning how to think three inches past the bubble of preselected anti-SJW agenda you approach every topic with.



    A mod warned against attacking Jeordie or Jessicka. I'm pretty sure calling out a political caricature using a Provider Module account by way of addressing his opinions is still allowed.

    Although a rule banning 'slander' is the most absurd thing in a thread about a band member likely raping somebody. Whose call exactly is it to determine what qualifies as slander? Am I slandering Jeordie for factually recounting unflattering things he did? What if girls with similar experiences start to find this forum and share their stories? Is Provider Module going to put itself in the position where the admins are being hounded by journalists as to why they're suppressing these things, or who asked them to?

    Now I don't think PM is doing that right now, but these are real sensitive choices they're gonna have to make. It's looking bad enough already that Provider Module, for all intents and purposes the official Marilyn Manson web forum run with Manson/Manson's lawyers collaboration and input, barred this story from being posted two years ago when Jessicka all but screamed it to the world. There's a reason Jeordie is locked-down in silence, Manson has released a vague one sentence PR statement, and PM has left this thread up. I'm no lawyer but I would assume their advice would be to let them take care of what's considered slanderous instead of leaving the decision up to 'mods' and opening up Provider Module itself to a bag of trouble.
    It could be true, or it could be false. But right now, it's an accusation that is unverified. Why is this so hard to comprehend? You just don't want to admit that you immediately took a side based on your own pre-conceived bias, and don't even care if it is substantiated. You're an incredibly hypersensitive person, and one who is prone to excessive junkie-level drug use, which you even brag about, and I'm convinced it has taken its toll on you - and that isn't my problem.

    Hypothetically, if I told you that Twiggy and Manson double-teamed me, raped me, and forced me to abort my child - should people automatically believe me? Would you? Simply ridiculous.
    Last edited by SangreV; 10-22-2017 at 05:44 PM.

  15. #50
    Spaceghost TH15x15xMYxOMeGA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImNotJesus View Post
    It's really, REALLY god damn important Marilyn Manson fans take this seriously. Don't make us look like some wannabe alpha nu-metal 'fuck jealous sluts amirite guys?' circle jerk.

    The simplest thing to do is recognize that there's often very little reason for women to falsify rape claims - and thus this accusation should be approached sensitivley and seriously. You can hold an 'innocent until proven guilty' mindset and also not slander a probable rape victim you guys.

    The truth is this fandom has a plethora of issues in admitting the failings of many things Marilyn Manson. Whether it be the quality of some artistic releases or the garbage behavior exhibited by band members and MM himself over the years.

    Manson should suspend Twiggy's involvement in the band indefinitely until further information comes to light.
    I agree with this. Thank you for being realistic here. This is an important moment right now, and many people are choosing to either ignore the accusations or try to make an excuse for it. This is why I made the thread. This is terribly painful news to hear about a band that you love so much, but we have to face the truth here. I will be so upset if Twiggy really did this, and I will no longer support the band if it is proven that Manson has been covering this up. I agree with you ImNotJesus, we need to take this seriously 1. Because no one deserves rape and 2. Because we need to be a respectable fanbase that does not support conduct such as this.

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