Marilyn Manson accused of assaulted Lexa Vonn (supposedly)

[Mansoniser]

She said that everything happened in 2011, but upon googling her she uploaded a YouTube video in December praising Manson and discussing her merchandise collection.
I supported Jessicka but this woman does not exactly strike me as a reliable source, there's being in denial and then there's whatever that was.

[Shangri-LIE]

lol is this gonna be your angle now? Trying to gaslight people into declaring Jeordie innocent by painting this person as crazy and not so subtly implying that this is somehow proof that Jessicka is in the same boat of "obviously fucking crazy people?"

Fascinating take but clearly totally stupid when given two seconds of thought, instead of just smugly patting yourself on the back as definitively proving that men are the real victims in this world. It's as simple as this: no rape accusation has a relation to any other rape accusation. This chick might be a legitimately insane stalker for all I know, but it's an incredibly nonsensical leap of logic to infer that this somehow proves Jessicka is in the same boat. Or hey, she might even be telling the truth. Again, being a crazy person doesn't mean you can't also be assaulted. But Manson's dealt with crazy fans before, he's got that experience under his belt. He's not really in a position to give a vague cop-out statement like Jeordie, so I suppose we'll see soon enough if her LAPD report has any truth behind it and whether Manson immediately files a libel suit and takes out a restraining order.

You guys are all so personally hurt by the Twiggy thing and wound up so tight with the thought that these crazy, fame hungry bitches were coming after Manson next that you would have jumped on any allegation with the same fervor it seems this one is getting. It's amusing, it's like you guys think that if you log on and quickly shut the story down then people who read the thread going forward will just take your opinions as fact and assume that this has been proven to be some insane person with a fake vendetta lol. You guys know you're not Manson's PR team right? Ahh, but I'm sure you all researched this very intently, with the sleuthing skills only the internet can have.

This thread is seriously just a bunch of people who have already decided the accuracy of the information based on nothing. Just a bunch of people posting 'Yep I looked into it. She's crazy so it's settled - the end.' Which is absolutely nutso. It's probably safe to say that almost all of you decided on whether or not it happened immediately upon reading the thread title. That's all the info you needed lol.

Again, I'm not addressing whether or not this is true (I've got no more idea than any of you) but it's astounding how you guys don't see that you're going up and down the list of reasons women give when asked why they didn't come forward.

"She's crazy, she just wants money and fame!"

"Why didn't she open up about these allegations earlier??"

These are probably the two most frequent arguments I saw from the people who think Jessicka is purposely lying. And those two things also happen to be directly contradictory lol. Coming out with a rape accusation soon after the event takes place means you're a dirty gold digger, yet waiting until well after the statue of limitations expires means that you're making it up - because who would ever take a long time to publicly explain the time they got assaulted. Can you guys list the appropriate time span in which you are okay with people reporting their rapes lol? That would be super helpful.

It's also hilariously moronic that people (like @Shangri-LIE and @Mephisto) have been continually implying that each additional person who comes forward with a rape accusation increases the likelihood that it's made up. lol no, it's pretty clearly the opposite. It's not women thinking "Oh somebody made a rape claim. That's a good idea, I never thought of doing that to benefit myself personally. I'm gonna do it." because again, that's an absolutely retarded thing to assume people do by default.

No, it's more like "Oh somebody told their rape story. Their strength has inspired me to gather up enough courage to tell my own story." How many times his that exact thing happened in the past couple years alone? Bill Cosby? Donald Trump? Harvey Weinstein? Kevin Spacey? Brett Ratner? James Toback? Bill O'Reilly? Roger Ailes? Friend of Marilyn Manson Terry Richardson, who's been a known creep for many years? All of these stories broke because once a floodgate begins to open with the statements of the first few people, it shows any other victims that they can really speak out now.

So when additional accusations arise around different people within short proximity to each other, it's absurd to react with "Oh of course, here comes another one. *eyeroll*" Because your idea of how these things happen is directly in opposition with reality.

Wow. You really have a lot to say that literally no one cares about. Actually, just about everyone seems to be on the same page, so there's really no point in even replying. It's just to let you know. But I'm pretty sure that you're already aware of that considering that almost everyone sees things completely differently than you do. That is all. @Golden Eel = "Everyone is stupid except for me.". *Edit I just have to as I was going to say this eventually. But if you don't see what I'm doing, ... lol Sorry. Not that you care. That, and it's fun to force you into typing up 4 - 5 paragraphs for every 3 - 4 sentences or so that either I or someone else posts.

[Christina]

Wow. You really have a lot to say that literally no one cares about. Actually, just about everyone seems to be on the same page, so there's really no point in even replying. It's just to let you know. But I'm pretty sure that you're already aware of that considering that almost everyone sees things completely differently than you do. That is all. @Golden Eel = "Everyone is stupid except for me.".

Thank you! Now I don't have to say it!

To make it completely clear to everyone, Evan was raped in 2003. Manson was with Dita at this point and didn't even know Evan yet! She has said this in several interviews!
On one hand, I get what Golden Eel is saying, BUT I don't understand why this person doesn't understand that yes, anyone who accuses could be telling the truth could also be lying as well! It's a two way street because a lot and I do mean (a lot) of women do lie about rape. You'd be amazed on how many do just because they wanted to, needed to or don't even know why they lied!
But I also don't see the point in calling people absurd (or any other name) for not believing accusations at hand! Are most accusations about rape the truth? Absolutely! But a lot of men are victimized from false rape claims.

But you have GOT to quit calling people names in your responses. Your opinion is understood (from me anyways) and I respect you'd stand up for a rape claim, especially being an assault victim here, but the name calling is weakening your opinion in mine!

[Absolution]

Does this mean that Marilyn Manson will part ways with Marilyn Manson as a member of Marilyn Manson

[303]

It would be funny is she got sued. Also, one of her articles is from November 5th 2019. She seems as relevant as one of Golden Eels opinions.

[Golden Eel]

On one hand, I get what Golden Eel is saying, BUT I don't understand why this person doesn't understand that yes, anyone who accuses could be telling the truth could also be lying as well!

There's no issue understanding this. I doubt Manson cut this chick up or whatever. But you've got to stop framing it as "trying to see both sides" when in reality what you're doing is 'absolutely everything you can to convince yourself that Manson/Jeordie are innocent and these are just crazy lying females with a vendetta.' You're not even attempting to approach this shit with a degree of open mindedness. You have your mind made up.

It's a two way street because a lot and I do mean (a lot) of women do lie about rape. You'd be amazed on how many do just because they wanted to, needed to or don't even know why they lied!

No, they don't. This isn't a thing that occurs in an amount any higher than false reports of any other type of crime, which is... low. It's vastly, vastly, vastly blown out of proportions by orders of magnitude by people with ideological issues with SJWs and feminists and how poorly men are treated in the world. And aparently also people who are fans of music made by an accused party. It is a non-issue that these types have turned into this ever looming boogeyman.

But I also don't see the point in calling people absurd (or any other name) for not believing accusations at hand! Are most accusations about rape the truth? Absolutely! But a lot of men are victimized from false rape claims.

But you have GOT to quit calling people names in your responses. Your opinion is understood (from me anyways) and I respect you'd stand up for a rape claim, especially being an assault victim here, but the name calling is weakening your opinion in mine!

This is why I keep repeating the same shit, because it's somehow not registering. I'm not calling people names for not believing accusations. Like I just said in this post and my prior post, I get the feeling that this isn't an entirely legitimate grievance on Lexa Vonn's part. Almost the entirety of everything I'm saying on this topic is directed at the logic some of you people are using to absolutely bend over backwards and cover your eyes to even the possibility that Manson or Jeordie ever did anything bad. The people this is aimed at aren't looking at both sides, they're not combing over the data for evidence. They're by default and forever believing the Marilyn Manson band members while at the same time heaping harassment on the person making the accusations.

So I'm not sure why you're flipping out as if I'm in here just raging and slinging terribly insulting shit at everybody. I'm attacking arguments because they're bad. Mephisto is the only person I'm directly insulting, but that's because he doesn't really warrant a legitimate response. I'm sorry if the word 'absurd' is too terribly uncivil for Provider Module, but did you even read anything beyond that word? I didn't call anybody absurd, I was pointing out how completely fucking stupid it is to automatically discount rape claims because they take place in close proximity to one another.

It is objectively retarded to assume that when multiple assault claims surface in clusters it's only because these women just decided to ride the fad of false rape claims. Particularly because, again, the evidence shows this to be complete bullshit. It's objectively retarded to doubt Alice Glass' claims simply because they happened around the same time as Jessicka's. It's objectively retarded to doubt Lexa Vonn's claims because they happened around Alice's or Jessicka's. This is the type of shit I'm calling out. I'm really not understanding why this is so controversial.

Imagine if you had a little sister that was raped and she finally opened up about it, and somebody's first response was, "Ohhh, of course. One of the girls at her school accused the jock of rape and his parents settled for a ton of cash. And now your sister suddenly claims she was raped too. Of course, I'm sure we'll see ten more of these in the next month." Would that not be completely retarded to say? Would that not be completely tone-deaf and ignorant of how any of this works? Or would you just side with the person who assumed by default that this girl was lying? Do you understand now how this has nothing to do with whether or not it happened and everything to do with people's fucked up, retarded ways of looking at things?

But as long as people keep saying this dumb shit and clearly taking the position of assuming a rape claim is by default false until proven true, then I'm going to keep calling those people morons.

There's an understatement.

"SOMEONE SAID THIS THING HAPPENED SO IT MUST BE TRUE OR IT VERY, VERY, PROBABLY IS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

Brilliant standard of evidence. Very solid. Very thought out. As if a woman being goddamn batshit insane isn't relevant. As if it doesn't affect her credibility. As if people who are crazy don't say crazy shit.

Let's imagine two fictional scenarios. In one of them, Dita accuses Manson of rape. In the other, Teena Byrd accuses Manon of rape.

Now, which seems more likely to be true? Obviously, Dita's accusation. Why? She's not goddamn psycho. There's nothing wrong with bringing the credibility of an accuser into question. When you accuse someone of something based on NOTHING but your own word, your credibility is automatically in question.

Is that really so hard to comprehend?

Guess so, Golden Feels, since reading apparently isn't your strong suit. :)

Your entire post is based on the premise of me thinking Manson raped this chick, which... I explicitly said I do not think. Literally 0% of my post was making an argument that Manson did this. Very little of my post was even about this specific situation. Did you even read my post? The entire explicit point was about how people aren't judging these situations by anybody's credibility. They're automatically siding against the accusers because they're fans of the accused and working outward from there. Like, what the fuck is so difficult to understand here? Are you people just entirely incapable of comprehending an even remotely nuanced point?

Maybe this will help: just because I don't automatically assume a woman is lying when she makes a rape accusation doesn't mean I do automatically believe every rape accusation. There is more than point of view here, I'm allowed to think this chick is probably a bit unbelievable and also criticize all the dumb bullshit being puked all over the forum about the topic of rape.

So what the fuck are you even talking about? I'm pretty clearly not the one having trouble reading a few short, simple paragraphs.

Also, the people you're going back and forth with on here, Shangs and Meph mostly, they never said that the timing of the claims made against Twiggy or Manson proves that they're false, only that they cast additional suspicion on the claims. Nice straw man though.

Uh, implying that a person's doubtful accusations in any way cast additional suspicion on an entirely unrelated situation involving two entirely different people is fucking stupid. The timing of any claims have no correlation to anything and the people who keep implying they do are morons.

When Alice Glass made her allegations against Ethan Kath, there were many, many people here and in the MM subreddit and various Facebook groups all doing the same shit - casting doubt on Alice's glass because of how close they were to Jessicka's. How about this guy's sarcastic post out how craaaazy it is that two women can report abuse in the same month?
Wow, what a time to be alive! How about Mephisto's post directly underneath that matter of factly states that Alice Glass reported these years of torture and abuse as marketing?

Why would something like that garner those responses if not for their assumption that Jessicka's claims are false, thus any remotely similar claims must be false as well? What possibly explanation is there for assuming rape claims are false by default other than rabid idiocy?

Jesus Christ you people are astoundingly thick.

[Suedehead]

Bloody hell, Golden Eel... I think you should have a lickle lie down.

[cataract777]

I saw that girl at a signing that Manson did with Shia Labeouf for the premiere of the Born Villain short film. At Hennessey and Ingalls in West Hollywood. I was standing a couple people back from her in line. She stood out to me. She was with a friend.

[arkahno]

Is this going to be another thread full of large walls of text from that guy with that horrible green signature?
Ok then.

[Scorpion]

Tyler Bates is soon going to be announced as the new owner of Marilyn Manson and post this on instagram:
"I've decided to part ways with Marilyn Manson. I have, thus, become the band. The tour will resume shortly with me playing all the instruments and Gil on drums."